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 Post subject: Re: Real world electrons usage......may surprise a few naysa
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:13 pm
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Location: Somerset
Model: TheOnly Way Is Turbo
Hyper miler ...... think I have more in me


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Steve - Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:13 pm......think I have lost far too much time in this forum.........
1981 924 Carrera GT/S rep race car - Signal Yellow. Too much to do, to little time and money!
1979 924 Turbo Series 1 - Alpine White & Guards Red. 11yrs owned. 41yrs young so now Tax & MoT exempt
2021 Skoda Superb Sportline Plus iV Hybrid Estate - Pearl Black. Love it!!
2015 Nissan Leaf Tekna - White. Continues to 'build trees'
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 Post subject: Re: Real world electrons usage......may surprise a few naysa
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:55 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:47 pm
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Location: Lincolnshire
Model: 924 N/A
I love this. I’m due to change my car in about 12 months and I’m very tempted now to go hybrid or BEV. I have a mighty commute of 6 minutes a day most days so modern petrol turbos are being wrecked by my short distance. I only do any reasonable mileage at the weekend when my car gets used as a bus by the family.

I’m really indecisive on it all.

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Get in touch about events or with newsletter articles by emailing me:

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 Post subject: Re: Real world electrons usage......may surprise a few naysa
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:00 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:24 am
Posts: 352
Location: Coventry area
Model: S1 Turbo
This is really fascinating - that is pretty impressive MPG averaged over a long distance...

Out of interest, whats the battery-only range when fully charged Steve, and how many kWh does it have? Does it show how many Wh goes back into the battery on your 42 mile journey to or from work? :beer:

Hybrids are great for people whose commute is largely covered by battery only, although on some models e.g. Mitsubishi, the engine is turned on frequently by software just to keep it healthy, so not much benefit for very short journeys like Ed's 6-miler from some hybrid models. BEV models will cover most peep's commutes...

I think all new cars should be hybridised from 2022, or pure EV....

I'm with the other chap - I cant wait for the Model-3's to come down in price! :food:

Maybe people have already seen the retrofittable hybrid system for 997's, that fits into the bell housing? Only $75k :booze:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moi_0YM1S3A interview with the engineer - a look at the motor (flywheel replacement). Next application is air cooled 911.

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1980 Mk1 Turbo, silver, green/blue tartan
1973 911T, 334 Blu Met, almost finished...


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 Post subject: Re: Real world electrons usage......may surprise a few naysa
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:18 am 
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deano wrote:
This is really fascinating - that is pretty impressive MPG averaged over a long distance...

Out of interest, whats the battery-only range when fully charged Steve, and how many kWh does it have? Does it show how many Wh goes back into the battery on your 42 mile journey to or from work? :beer:

Hybrids are great for people whose commute is largely covered by battery only, although on some models e.g. Mitsubishi, the engine is turned on frequently by software just to keep it healthy, so not much benefit for very short journeys like Ed's 6-miler from some hybrid models. BEV models will cover most peep's commutes...

I think all new cars should be hybridised from 2022, or pure EV....

I'm with the other chap - I cant wait for the Model-3's to come down in price! :food:

Maybe people have already seen the retrofittable hybrid system for 997's, that fits into the bell housing? Only $75k :booze:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moi_0YM1S3A interview with the engineer - a look at the motor (flywheel replacement). Next application is air cooled 911.


I did 35 miles this morning battery only. I think the 'quoted' figure may be 42 miles? but you need all the planets aligned, optimum air temp, battery temp, run the car under Apollo 13 conditions, drive at lowish speed, limited stop/starts, hyper miling etc. Just driving 10mph faster on the motorway ruins the potential range. So flat out at 85mph will kill the battery quicker, as it would driving faster with fossil fuels. As they say, the light that shines twice as bright lasts half as long! Many uneducated PHEV/BEV drivers don't seem to understand this math when complaining they don't get good range

Watch out for some non plug in hybrids......they regen some battery but do only 2 miles or so range. OK for inner city rule avoidance, but essentially 99.8% fossil fuel cars.

This mornings results.. heated seats and wheel on, cabin heater off. As the air temp warms up, I reckon I could get nearer 40 miles EV range and hit 300mpg which is the most it will calculate. People don't like me driving at 50mph on the motorway/dual carriageway......


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Steve - Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:13 pm......think I have lost far too much time in this forum.........
1981 924 Carrera GT/S rep race car - Signal Yellow. Too much to do, to little time and money!
1979 924 Turbo Series 1 - Alpine White & Guards Red. 11yrs owned. 41yrs young so now Tax & MoT exempt
2021 Skoda Superb Sportline Plus iV Hybrid Estate - Pearl Black. Love it!!
2015 Nissan Leaf Tekna - White. Continues to 'build trees'
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 Post subject: Re: Real world electrons usage......may surprise a few naysa
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:54 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:01 pm
Posts: 524
Location: Sweden
Model: 924 turbo
I have many friends with passat GTEs, they rarely fill up the tanks at all, except for long journeys and towing. The latter is not really the optimum for it with the small turbo engine, and you would probably get similar fuel mileage with a 5.0l n/a engine, if not better :grin:

For my type of usage the PHEV would make a lot of sense from a fuel consumption perspective, however from an economical perspective theres still a way to go before it makes sense.

Regarding the engine starts, some manufacturers dont have a heat pump for the cabin heating, hence the engine starts from time to time for the cabin heating, for example KIA/Hyundai. You get long range when its cold but some people thinks its annoying that the engines starts even though there is long battery range left.


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 Post subject: Re: Real world electrons usage......may surprise a few naysa
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:24 pm 
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Model: TheOnly Way Is Turbo
CedricN wrote:
Regarding the engine starts, some manufacturers dont have a heat pump for the cabin heating, hence the engine starts from time to time for the cabin heating, for example KIA/Hyundai. You get long range when its cold but some people thinks its annoying that the engines starts even though there is long battery range left.


On the GTE I had engine starts as the 12V battery was low. Theres no alternator on these engines so when the 12V is low ICE will kick in and somehow recharge it. Usually when in London type standstill traffic and no regen from the hubs.

I was watching Vintage Voltage the other evening and even my wife mentioned I'd want an EV in the Porsche soon. I told her its already crossed my mind for the turbo when that motor goes into the race car shell.....if only I had £25k burning a hole in my pocket.

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Steve - Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:13 pm......think I have lost far too much time in this forum.........
1981 924 Carrera GT/S rep race car - Signal Yellow. Too much to do, to little time and money!
1979 924 Turbo Series 1 - Alpine White & Guards Red. 11yrs owned. 41yrs young so now Tax & MoT exempt
2021 Skoda Superb Sportline Plus iV Hybrid Estate - Pearl Black. Love it!!
2015 Nissan Leaf Tekna - White. Continues to 'build trees'


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 Post subject: Re: Real world electrons usage......may surprise a few naysa
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:31 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:08 pm
Posts: 297
Model: 924
Some figures from my Golf 1.6TDI. My commute is 5 miles of A roads, and 25 miles of the M5.

Driving fuel efficiently, IE slow acceleration, 50 to 60 on the motorway etc, I get 70 to 80 mpg. Occasionally up to 85 mpg. (Depends a lot on the weather conditions).

Normal driving, 70 on the motorway, I get around 50 to 55 mpg.

Hard driving, 80 on the motorway I get less than 40 mpg.



The 924 in comparison is rubbish on fuel, and the Midget just plain ridiculous :grin:

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A 1983 924 na called Blinky (the kids choice, not mine, honestly)
My other classic is a 1975 MG Midget called Noddy.


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 Post subject: Re: Real world electrons usage......may surprise a few naysa
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:55 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:31 pm
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Model: 924 Turbo S2
Carrera RSR wrote:
CedricN wrote:
Regarding the engine starts, some manufacturers dont have a heat pump for the cabin heating, hence the engine starts from time to time for the cabin heating, for example KIA/Hyundai. You get long range when its cold but some people thinks its annoying that the engines starts even though there is long battery range left.


On the GTE I had engine starts as the 12V battery was low. Theres no alternator on these engines so when the 12V is low ICE will kick in and somehow recharge it. Usually when in London type standstill traffic and no regen from the hubs.

I was watching Vintage Voltage the other evening and even my wife mentioned I'd want an EV in the Porsche soon. I told her its already crossed my mind for the turbo when that motor goes into the race car shell.....if only I had £25k burning a hole in my pocket.



There appear to be lots of bits of broken BEVs on the web and a complete Nissan Leaf can be had from a franchised dealer for <£6k. I assume that a used motor from a BEV could be persuaded to fit a 924. I don't understand the batteries at all, most of them seem to form the floor of the car but presumably one or more from a hybrid could be made to fit. The big flat boot space at the back and under it where the tank goes make the 924 look like a really good prospect for a BEV conversion, much better than an air cooled Beetle or similar.

Converting a 924 to BEV spec must be easier than installing a supercharger or fitting it with a Ford cylinder head....


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 Post subject: Re: Real world electrons usage......may surprise a few naysa
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:58 pm 
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ChrisMadge wrote:
Some figures from my Golf 1.6TDI. My commute is 5 miles of A roads, and 25 miles of the M5.

Driving fuel efficiently, IE slow acceleration, 50 to 60 on the motorway etc, I get 70 to 80 mpg. Occasionally up to 85 mpg. (Depends a lot on the weather conditions).

Normal driving, 70 on the motorway, I get around 50 to 55 mpg.

Hard driving, 80 on the motorway I get less than 40 mpg.



The 924 in comparison is rubbish on fuel, and the Midget just plain ridiculous :grin:


Diesel mpg really kicks in best when driving big miles. My 42 mile commutes saw 42mpg with 2.0d Audi with slightly heavy foot. But do a week of big mileage, then that jumped significantly into 60-70mpg. After 3yrs of both, it averaged 46mpg. I wasn't hanging about.

The GTE ended up somewhere around 56mpg average over 3.5yrs, so better than the Audi diesel and the fuel was cheaper. Cost to lease was higher, BiK was far lower.

Comparing mpgs is like comparing tyre wear, everyone drives differently.

Just thought I'd start the thread with some current feedback. Currently its not so real world as I'm not doing big journeys nor higher speeds. But I expect the Skoda iV to be better than the VW GTE. VW made improvements on the GTE last year and shares the same platform as Skoda. So Hybids are improving

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Steve - Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:13 pm......think I have lost far too much time in this forum.........
1981 924 Carrera GT/S rep race car - Signal Yellow. Too much to do, to little time and money!
1979 924 Turbo Series 1 - Alpine White & Guards Red. 11yrs owned. 41yrs young so now Tax & MoT exempt
2021 Skoda Superb Sportline Plus iV Hybrid Estate - Pearl Black. Love it!!
2015 Nissan Leaf Tekna - White. Continues to 'build trees'


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 Post subject: Re: Real world electrons usage......may surprise a few naysa
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:13 pm
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Model: TheOnly Way Is Turbo
Dan924TS2 wrote:
Carrera RSR wrote:
CedricN wrote:
Regarding the engine starts, some manufacturers dont have a heat pump for the cabin heating, hence the engine starts from time to time for the cabin heating, for example KIA/Hyundai. You get long range when its cold but some people thinks its annoying that the engines starts even though there is long battery range left.


On the GTE I had engine starts as the 12V battery was low. Theres no alternator on these engines so when the 12V is low ICE will kick in and somehow recharge it. Usually when in London type standstill traffic and no regen from the hubs.

I was watching Vintage Voltage the other evening and even my wife mentioned I'd want an EV in the Porsche soon. I told her its already crossed my mind for the turbo when that motor goes into the race car shell.....if only I had £25k burning a hole in my pocket.



There appear to be lots of bits of broken BEVs on the web and a complete Nissan Leaf can be had from a franchised dealer for <£6k. I assume that a used motor from a BEV could be persuaded to fit a 924. I don't understand the batteries at all, most of them seem to form the floor of the car but presumably one or more from a hybrid could be made to fit. The big flat boot space at the back and under it where the tank goes make the 924 look like a really good prospect for a BEV conversion, much better than an air cooled Beetle or similar.

Converting a 924 to BEV spec must be easier than installing a supercharger or fitting it with a Ford cylinder head....


Watch the Vintage Voltage show. Its not hard, but not a case of buying a £6k Leaf and swapping out......hence they charge upwards of £20k to convert ICE to EV. Who knows what is parts + labour + profit? Not sure I'd do it myself DIY......

_________________
Steve - Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:13 pm......think I have lost far too much time in this forum.........
1981 924 Carrera GT/S rep race car - Signal Yellow. Too much to do, to little time and money!
1979 924 Turbo Series 1 - Alpine White & Guards Red. 11yrs owned. 41yrs young so now Tax & MoT exempt
2021 Skoda Superb Sportline Plus iV Hybrid Estate - Pearl Black. Love it!!
2015 Nissan Leaf Tekna - White. Continues to 'build trees'


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